GeezerVison

0aaf135 was an attempt to integrate this into the Makefile/PCBuild more 'properly', but I'm not confident in making wider-scale changes here (said commit didn't work, so I've reverted it).

Adding @ambv and @Yhg1s for review of impact on release process and supply chain security.

This is going to need something for buildbots to avoid breaking them all, but I like the direction here.

I identified the place needing to be changed in #12791 (comment).

@AA-Turner FYI

I identified the place needing to be changed

I tried to explore a different approach of fully integrating this into make all in 0aaf135, which I think may be a better approach as it doesn't require downsteam distributors to change anything in their processes. I defer to those with much more experience with the build systems, though.

A

I tried to explore a different approach of fully integrating this into make all

I tried doing that in my PR and was getting weird behavior, I wasn't sure why. Maybe I was misusing something in the build machinery or was just confused...

If that works, it's probably fine. OTOH, you may want to take into account that many distributions prefer their build envs to be disconnected from the internet so it might still be wise to provide them with means to pre-provision the wheel separately.

Tagging @encukou @hroncok @mgorny for downstream opinions.

This PR doesn't attempt to switch to the one-project model, as I found the diff was too large to reasonably review.

Would #109245 help?

If that works, it's probably fine. OTOH, you may want to take into account that many distributions prefer their build envs to be disconnected from the internet so it might still be wise to provide them with means to pre-provision the wheel separately.

In Gentoo we aren't actually using the wheels originally bundled with CPython itself but providing the newest versions of the them separately, so as long as that continues working, I suppose that's fine with us. However, it is is paramount that:

1. The build process and test suite fully respect --with-wheel-pkg-dir and do not attempt to download anything.
2. This is entirely restricted to CPython build-time, and in particularly creating venv doesn't attempt any fetching.

However, I can imagine it could be mildly annoying to users who aren't used to the new workflow that having a complete git clone would no longer suffice to actually build CPython offline.

Same for Fedora. With an addition that we do sometimes keep the bundled wheels for too new or too old Pythons, so having a way to pre-populate the wheels instead of downloaidng them would still be needed.

@AA-Turner could you resolve the conflicts with this PR?

I think it would be good to have this be in Python 3.13's cycle as early as possible, to allow any potential redistributors who care about the details of ensurepip to have time to adjust things as well as provide us feedback on this as early as feasible.

Closing this per #80789 (comment). Thanks @AA-Turner for filing this, even though we're not going ahead with this (despite me implying that earlier in the discussion).