GeezerVison

Shipping these examples somewhere else would be worse for users IMO. If I want to look up what str.maketrans does, I'm going to look at the str.maketrans docs, not read through the whole page

In these discussion about .. raw:: I'm having a hard time understanding whether objections are fundamental to the proposal or whether they're predicated on sphinx implementation issues. If we had a magic sphinx wand, are inline collapsible sections something you (or other docs-community folks) would be okay with or not?

If I want to look up what str.maketrans does, I'm going to look at the str.maketrans docs, not read through the whole page

This is a discoverability problem, but it can be easily be solved by turning the "See examples" text that expands the collapsed section in a link to the bottom of the page, where the section with all the examples is.

In these discussion about .. raw:: I'm having a hard time understanding whether objections are fundamental to the proposal or whether they're predicated on sphinx implementation issues.

There are a few issues at different levels:

• .. raw:: itself is not an elegant solution implementation-wise, since it requires hardcoding raw HTML and also leads to repetition and increases the risk of errors (I'm not sure Sphinx is able to check markup errors in raw directives).
• using existing plugins solves these problems, but introduces a new issue: the doc should be buildable without third-part extensions.
• both these solutions, afaik, have the additional problem that they only works with the HTML builder, and not with the other builders -- something that we also want to support (adopting graceful degradation is an acceptable compromise here).

If we had a magic sphinx wand, are inline collapsible sections something you (or other docs-community folks) would be okay with or not?

If all the problems listed above were magically solved (i.e. if Sphinx added a built-in support for collapsible sections that words with all builders), then they could definitely be a useful tool. They still have some minor issues (e.g. iirc ctrl+f doesn't detect text within a collapsed section and they might be easy to miss while skimming through a page), but at that point the pros might outweigh the cons.

Finally, there's also another higher-level and more general discussion that we should have (probably not here, the next doc meeting might be better): should we have some convention on where to put examples?

We don't want to end up in a situation where a page uses collapsible sections, another has examples at the top, another at the bottom, another in the middle, another in a separate page, etc. If we agree on some conventions, it will also be easier for users to set their expectations and know where to look.

Finally, there's also another higher-level and more general discussion that we should have (probably not here, the next doc meeting might be better): should we have some convention on where to put examples?

We discussed this during the last meeting, and we agreed that a better approach would be to have a couple of simpler/short examples inline (i.e. just after the fuction doc) and possibly link to an "Example" section with more examples at the bottom. If we follow this approach, we don't need to worry about having collapsible sections and the issues that come along with those.

Great! The examples in this PR are all simple and short.

So it sounds like we should just keep these in line, without the collapsible sections. And as per your last comment, if Sphinx develops better collapsible section tech in the future, we can incorporate this (and I'm happy to do the work for this myself).

In case folks read this thread later want a concrete example of what that would look like, here's the equivalent Go docs with collapsible sections: https://pkg.go.dev/strings#pkg-functions (to keep in theme with the Rob Pike quote from above )

So it sounds like we should just keep these in line, without the collapsible sections. And as per your last comment, if Sphinx develops better collapsible section tech in the future, we can incorporate this (and I'm happy to do the work for this myself).

Do you mean reject this PR in favor of #105670 ?

Do you mean reject this PR in favor of #105670 ?

Are those the same examples, just without collapsible sections?

Do you mean reject this PR in favor of #105670 ?

Are those the same examples, just without collapsible sections?

Exactly. For this PR, I only forked that branch and added the collapsible sections.

OK, I have been reviewing "simple" PR docs and it seems like the consensus is to use #105670 and then close this one ( #111743 )

@adorilson , if you agree, please close this PR.

Silly question, where is the consensus?

Silly question, where is the consensus?

Well, it seems that @adorilson , @ezio-melotti , @hugovk , @terryjreedy , @CAM-Gerlach , @encukou all agree that the examples are useful and that we should use them without the additional formatting.
@hauntsaninja , do you have an objection to adding the examples?

I'm strongly in favour of adding the examples, see e.g. #111743 (review) and my other reviews on this and related PRs

But last I checked, Ezio and others weren't sure what the best way and place and format to add them was. I still can't find discussion that comes to a consensus on this (i.e. to go with #105670) and was curious, which is why I asked :-)

(Personally, I'm fine with any option that adds the examples, with a very mild preference for collapsible sections)

But last I checked, Ezio and others weren't sure what the best way and place and format to add them was. I still can't find discussion that comes to a consensus on this (i.e. to go with #105670) and was curious, which is why I asked :-)

In fact, maybe "consensus" is a strong word.
But I understood that adding examples without collapsible sections was a decision, and @ezio-melotti would review #105670 .

I see. Well, I think the examples are very good, so I made a bit of a compromise by trying to integrate them more closely with the prose they describe, Doc/library/stdtypes.rst
My motivation is to expedite getting these examples into the docs.
If PR #119445 is not useful, I'll close it.

Hi, @blaisep.

I've seen your changes on my PR. And I like it.

I'll keep this PR open until some other related PR is merged. But if some core developers want to close it, go ahead. I think this (and also #105670 ) can be closed in favour of #119445.

By the way, we are currently in the process of reviving sphinx-doc/sphinx#10532 which could make this PR much cleaner in the future. I cannot give you a merge ETA because Adam and Chris seem quite busy but I personally hope that we can make it for the next Sphinx release (or the one after).

EDIT: I know that this PR was already mentioned but since it was in January and we had some activity in April, I wanted to mention that we did not forget the use-case.

This work is ongoing via many small PRs without the collapsible sections, as such, I will close this PR.