GeezerVison

@encukou @mdickinson @serhiy-storchaka: Would you mind to review this change?

It's a new API for PyHash_Double() function: other APIs were discussed in PR #112095.

I renamed the function from PyHash_Double() to Py_HashDouble() following #112095 (comment) discussion.

I rebased the PR on the main branch.

I'm wondering whether we want to consider switching the meaning of the return value, so that 0 is used for non-NaNs and 1 for NaNs

Ok, I modified the API to return 1 if the float is not-a-number (NaN), and return 0 otherwise.

In similar API, 1 means that you're getting a meaningful *result, and 0 means the result is NULL:

• PyDict_GetItemRef
• PyObject_GetOptionalAttr

IMO, that's a good convention to establish (here, with 0 rather than NULL).
(The current devguide uses “lesser” and “greater”, which always seemed rather opaque to me, but “you're getting more data” does sounds like the “greater” result.)

IMO, that's a good convention to establish

Fair enough. That convention does feel somewhat in conflict with the common "zero-return = success", "non-zero-return = failure" API that we have elsewhere, but that's a wider issue.

but “you're getting more data” does sounds like the “greater” result

Agreed.

the common "zero-return = success", "non-zero-return = failure" API

If I'm reading the room correctly, we're reserving only -1 for errors -- but only the “hard” errors where an exception is set.
In the case of exceptions not being set, “success” and “failure” tend to mean different things to different people :)

I reverted my change to move back to the previous API:

• Return 0 if the argument is not-a-number (NaN)
• Return 1 otherwise.

@mdickinson @encukou: Would you mind to review/approve formally the PR?

@encukou:

Other WG members might disagree, but I don't see anything too controversial any more.

I created capi-workgroup/decisions#2 for the C API Working Group.

I merged my Py_HashPointer() PR. I rebased this PR on top on it.

I will update the PR to address the reviews, once the API will be approved by the C API Working Group.

I updated What's New in Python 3.13 to suggest a recipe replacing usage of the private _Py_HashDouble() function:

* Add :c:func:`Py_HashDouble` function to hash a C double number. Existing code
  using the private ``_Py_HashDouble()`` function can be updated to::

        Py_hash_t
        hash_double(PyObject *obj, double value)
        {
            Py_hash_t hash;
            if (Py_HashDouble(value, &hash) == 0) {
                hash = Py_HashPointer(obj);
            }
            return hash;
        }

  (Contributed by Victor Stinner in :gh:`111545`.)

I would prefer a simpler API that does not treat NaN as special at all and leave this to the user:

        Py_hash_t
        hash_double(PyObject *obj, double value)
        {
            if (Py_IS_NAN(value)) {
                return Py_HashPointer(obj);
            }
            else {
                return Py_HashDouble(value);
            }
        }

Even if it is slightly slower. But it requires less mental effort to understand and use the API.

Py_hash_t hash_double(PyObject *obj, double value)

What should an user pass in as obj?

What should an user pass in as obj?

@serhiy-storchaka proposes the API: Py_hash_t Py_HashDouble(double value) which never fails. It returns 0 for NaN.

I would be fine with this API. It was more or less proposed earlier. But it was said that having to call Py_IS_NAN() might have an impact on performance. I supposed that Py_IS_NAN() is really cheap.

In terms of API, Py_hash_t Py_HashDouble(double value) is simpler than int Py_HashDouble(double value, Py_hash_t *result). There is no need to have to think if result is NULL or not, and there is no need to check for error.

Py_hash_t hash_double(PyObject *obj, double value) is only the example that I added to What's New in Python 3.13 doc to migrate from the private _Py_HashDouble() function.

I wrote PR #113115 which implements Py_hash_t Py_HashDouble(double value) API so you can look at code to compare with this PR implementing the API int Py_HashDouble(double value, Py_hash_t *result).

@serhiy-storchaka @mdickinson: So which API do you prefer?

• Py_hash_t Py_HashDouble(double value)
• int Py_HashDouble(double value, Py_hash_t *result)

I prefer your initial interface Py_hash_t Py_HashDouble(double value), but maybe without any special handling for NaN. It should be handled externally by user.

Unless there is really large performance advantage in using the second variant. I do not know how large should it be to justify more complex interface. 10% is not large.

I prefer your initial interface Py_hash_t Py_HashDouble(double value)

Ok.

but maybe without any special handling for NaN. It should be handled externally by user.

If prefer to have a deterministic behavior and always return the same hash value (0) if value is NaN. There are legit use cases to treat NaN as hash value 0. See my comment.

I prefer your initial interface Py_hash_t Py_HashDouble(double value), but maybe without any special handling for NaN. It should be handled externally by user.

Ditto. I don't see a need for anything more complicated than this, and it feels wrong to me to allow minor performance differences to drive API design.

If prefer to have a deterministic behavior and always return the same hash value (0) if value is NaN. There are legit use cases to treat NaN as hash value 0.

This sounds good to me.

Ditto. I don't see a need for anything more complicated than this, and it feels wrong to me to allow minor performance differences to drive API design.

Ok. I proposed to change C API Working Group decision on this API: capi-workgroup/decisions#2 (comment)

If prefer to have a deterministic behavior and always return the same hash value (0) if value is NaN.

It creates a vulnerability. CPython itself never calls this API for a NaN. If a third-party code calls it for a NaN value, it will allow to easily create non-equal objects with the same hash.

The simpler API, Py_hash_t Py_HashDouble(double value), has a footgun: if you forget to do the NaN check, all your NaNs will hash the same.
IMO, this is a case of expert blindness: it you know floats and Python's float-hashing behaviour, the required Py_IS_NAN check is second nature. But IMO, we shouldn't be designing the API for experts.
So I'd present slightly different choices:

• int Py_HashDouble(double value, Py_hash_t *result), as in this PR, which makes it more obvious that different kinds of results are possible.
• Py_hash_t Py_HashNonNaNDouble(double value), with an uglier name, where the necessary check is obvious from that name.

The simpler API, Py_hash_t Py_HashDouble(double value), has a footgun: if you forget to do the NaN check, all your NaNs will hash the same.

Can this concern be resolved with better documentation? Explain in which case treating all NaN "as equal" can be an issue, or suggest a solution such as @serhiy-storchaka's recipe #112449 (comment) ?

I'm not convinced that using the same hash value (0) for all NaN numbers is a big deal, since Python was doing that until 3.9. The hash value is just an optimization to avoid the slower comparison operator, it's more about performance than about correctness.

$ python3.9
>>> nan1=float("inf")*0
>>> nan2=float("inf")*0
>>> nan2 is nan1
False

# Same hash value
>>> hash(nan1), hash(nan2)
(0, 0)

# dict works "as expected"
>>> d={nan1: 1, nan2: 2}; d
{nan: 1, nan: 2}
>>> d[nan1]
1
>>> d[nan2]
2

# where the magic happens, NaN is not equal to NaN
>>> nan2 == nan1
False

Can this concern be resolved with better documentation?

IMO, no. When doing a review, you don't check the docs of all functions you see. Just the surprising ones.

It is a big deal. Try to create a dict with 10000 or 100000 of NaNs.

d = {float('nan'): i for i in range(100000)}

It is a big deal. Try to create a dict with 10000 or 100000 of NaNs.

Aha, I see: it's way faster in Python 3.10 where hash(nan) is not always 0.

# hash(nan) = 0
$ python3.9 -m timeit '{float("nan"): i for i in range(10_000)}'
1 loop, best of 5: 1.12 sec per loop

# hash(nan) = id(obj)
$ python3.10 -m timeit '{float("nan"): i for i in range(10_000)}'
100 loops, best of 5: 2.7 msec per loop

But the proposed API is for Py_HashDouble() which only takes a C double. It's up to the caller to use something else to calculate a different hash value for NaN. The question is how we can guide users to such solution.

For me, Py_HashDouble() is like a primitive used to build a hash function.

@encukou:

IMO, no. When doing a review, you don't check the docs of all functions you see. Just the surprising ones.

I'm talking about Py_HashDouble() documentation. I'm asking if we can write doc in a way that users avoid the hash collision issue if their numbers can be NaN.

I'm talking about Py_HashDouble() documentation. I'm asking if we can write doc in a way that users avoid the hash collision issue if their numbers can be NaN.

I'm also talking about the documentation. Users won't read the docs. If the function has surprising behaviour, adding a hint that you should look at the docs goes a long way.

I created PR #112095 more than 1 month ago. I spent time to run benchmark, implement different APIs, try to collect feedback on each API, and discuss in length advantages and disadvantages of each API. Sadly, we failed to reach a consensus on the API. Now another API is being discussed. The API looks simple to me, I didn't expect to spend more than one month on a single function.

I need to take a break from that topic. I don't have the energy to dig into these discussions. I prefer to close the PR for now.