GeezerVison

LGTM. But how about completely disable smart-quote?

When building English document for French, converting "foo" to «foo» will be good idea.
But we "translating" document. When «» is better than "", translators can use «» directly.

French: 6.1.3. Fichiers Python « compilés »
https://docs.python.org/fr/dev/tutorial/modules.html#compiled-python-files

Original (english): https://docs.python.org/dev/tutorial/modules.html#compiled-python-files
https://docs.python.org/dev/tutorial/modules.html#compiled-python-files

Do « and » come from the translation, or from smart quotes?

If it comes from the translation, where are the smart quotes used?

« and » come from the smart quotes, here's the po file:

#: ../Doc/tutorial/modules.rst:193
msgid "\"Compiled\" Python files"
msgstr "Fichiers Python \"compilés\""

Then, without smart-quote, translators can choose quote symbols.
With smart-quote, translators can't.

« and » come from the smart quotes, here's the po file: (...)

Ok. So I undertand that all quotes would have to be modified in the french PO file if we disable smart quotes for all languages. I dislike requesting the french translators to modify so many translations :-/

What is the impact of this change for the japanese PO translation? Does it break anything?

@methane: "With smart-quote, translators can't."

Hum. I don't understand something. The bpo title is "Allow to specialize smart quotes in documentation translations". What is the purpose of this PR in this case?

@methane: "With smart-quote, translators can't."

Sorry, I don't understand well the consequences of smart quotes.

Let's say that this PR is merge.

• Original text: msgid ""Compiled" Python files"
• French translation: msgstr "Fichiers Python "compilés""
• (Hypothetical) Japanese translation: msgstr "Fichiers Python "compilés""
• French rendered as: Fichiers Python « compilés »
• Japanese rendered as: Fichiers Python "compilés"
• (Hypothetical) Japanese translation 2: msgstr "Fichiers Python [compilés]"
• (Hypothetical) Japanese translation 2 rendered as: Fichiers Python [compilés]

Smart quotes only changed the rendered text if the translation keeps "..." quotes, no? But with this PR, "..." is left unchanged. Japanese translators are free to replace "..." quotes with whatever else in the PO file, no?

A question is "Did smart quote been introduced just to fix translation of lazy translators, or is it a really interesting feature even for good translators". If it's "just to fix lazyness" I would be OK to drop it, let's do things properly in the first place.

I searched an answer to this question and found http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/smartquotes.html

Looks like SmartQuotes is also used to transform --- into — so it look like they're used by the english documentation too, not only translations, some can be seen around: https://docs.python.org/3/distutils/apiref.html#module-distutils.filelist

So completly removing smartquotes will also ask for english documents to be reviewed (actually a single sed is probably enough).

The smartquotes documentat also say it may be better to do it right in the first place than relying on smartquotes:

Even if you do care about accurate typography, you still might want to think twice before "auto-educating" the quote characters in your documents. As there is always a chance that the algorithm gets it wrong, you may instead prefer to use the compose key or some other means to insert the correct Unicode characters into the source.

If we're going to remove smartquotes, I'm OK to review french translation myself to fix quotes, let's not make this a blocking issue.

--- hyphen is very common in the Python documentation:

haypo@selma$ grep -R ' --- ' Doc|wc -l
469

We use 「おはよう」 for Japanese sentence, and both of 「Good morning!」and "Good morning!" are OK.
But in technical document, we don't use 「options」. We use "options" instead.

So this pull request is OK for Japanese document.
I just wonder if French translators use « when they want «, and use " when they want it.
But I don't know much about French. If you're OK for smart-quote, let's merge it.

I searched a a few minutes in the french documentation and didn't found a paragraph where " …. " would be better than the imposed-by-smartquotes « …», and never encontered one in the past, but we only translated 1/4 of the whole, so we may miss some smartquote induced problems in the future, I can't know.

It seems to me that the automatic replacement of --- with — and straight quotes to correct French quotes is a work-around for poor Unicode support in input methods and displays. Maybe it was or is useful for docs extracted from docstrings that are ASCII-only, like the rule for the stdlib. But for translations in 2017, I would not rely on these automatic replacements but use the real characters directly in po files: accents, chevron quotes, ™ symbols, long dashes and all. It really isn’t fun to read or edit source full of \uXXX or &xxx; escapes.

(Same rule for non-breaking spaces if the Python French translation uses the France variant; in Québec or Switzerland there are no spaces.)

After reading most recent replies: if having straight quotes in source and using the automated replacement works for Julien, then +1! And if desired by the translation team, the source could be moved to correct quotes over time, removing the need for the transform.

Thanks @JulienPalard for the PR, and @methane for merging it 🌮🎉.. I'm working now to backport this PR to: 2.7.
🐍🍒⛏🤖

Thanks @JulienPalard for the PR, and @methane for merging it 🌮🎉.. I'm working now to backport this PR to: 3.6.
🐍🍒⛏🤖

GH-4324 is a backport of this pull request to the 2.7 branch.

GH-4325 is a backport of this pull request to the 3.6 branch.